Should I got for Lotus Notes? pls help

Hi,I have to make a decision between Lotus Note Domino and Microsoft .Net/SQL Server.

As a project manager I have been mandated to build up a team for a web based solution for chain of health clinics to track and maintain appointments, patients, doctors, and produce web services for financial reporting(document management). Each clinic will have up to 4 networked PCs running the application. I have the following questions

  1. Is LN quite suitable as a web solution of app of this nature? (I know its excellent for such app if run on notes client)

  2. What system architecture is recommended for LN: i.e. Do I need to have a domino server in each clinic with PC anywhere for remote access?

  3. What type of network is required? Can I rely on the Internet broadband or have a network and implement notes client?

On the other hand .Net by Microsoft is a new and modern technology with RDBMS SQL Server backend and obviously licensing is much cheaper than Lotus Notes. I also need to consider the maintenance of the app after is deployed.

The application is intended to be used by around 5,000 clinics accessing and tracking their own records and I am not sure how horizontal query is implemented in LN? (i.e. each clinic access its own data)

Please give me some feedback. But don’t try to be biased to Lotus Notes!

cheers,

m

Subject: Should I got for Lotus Notes?? pls help

I am a developer of both Lotus Notes and .Net.Both have great features about them and both have their own draw backs. However at the end of the day Lotus Notes wins. It has a security architecture built in to it where .net you have to build yours. I have used Lotus Notes for medical applications for the past 6 years and when it comes time for the JCAHO and HIPAA auditors, it passes everytime no worries. I have used Lotus Notes for web applications and for interactive web sites for years. It is very easy to use and to develop. Eventhough your data is in Lotus Notes there are many things that can be done to exchange said data with other systems if you should need to.

Some web sites to look at:

www.andersontechs.com

As for .Net, my only real complaint against them would be that you have to develop everything from scratch. Otherwise you could do very well with either tool

As I am sure you are aware, the application that is developed is only as good as the developer. Meaning no matter what you decide to go with, if the application is not developed well

the users will hate it… I hear all the time, users saying how they hate Lotus Notes, and it you talk to them some more you will find that they had a bad experience with a poorly developed application. The same could be said about .Net applications. I think in your case you should look at what features each has to offer and make your decision from there…

Hope that was as non-biased as you wanted. But you came to a lotus notes web site, kind of hard not to be biased

Subject: Biased opinion

Sorry, but I can’t not give you a biased opinion :slight_smile:

LN is the most powerful app/environment you’ll find for your specific needs. Document management is a breeze, appointments (and schedules, and reschedules, and workflows, etc) are already implemented and can be fully customised to your needs, and the base technical architecture is very simple (once you master it) and very easily extendable. You start with one Domino server, and put up a few more if you need them. Replication takes care of everything.

Documents (records in relational lingo) can also very easily protected (read access, write access, etc) on an individual/group/clinic level.

You also have the possibility to use the richness of the Notes client for the tasks that require heavy editing, and the pervasiveness of the web client for easy access.

Hope it helps, and contact me offline if you have more questions.

Subject: It sounds I was biased to LN opinion!

hi,thanks for the responses.

I think I probably made my mind up that Lotus Notes is answer. But I am still not sure about the implementation. I will quickly repeate my questions:

  1. If LN is considered then shall I implement a notes client or browser access. I find the notes clients is easier to implement. However, browser is required as means of access.

  2. Speed performance is so cructial and they expect to use it like a desktop app speed. Now the question:

  3. What system architecture is recommended for LN: i.e. do I need to have a domino server in each clinic and let them store their own data or have it centrally in remote location.

  4. What type of network is required? Can I rely on the Internet broadband or have a network.

  5. Lastly, how about the issue of licensing cost of LN?

Thank you all in advance and specially Jean.

cheers,

m

Subject: RE: It sounds I was biased to LN opinion!

Let’s see if I can help.

  1. You can do one or the other or both. That’s the beauty of Notes/Domino. Whatever the requirements dictate.

  2. Okay.

  3. Depends on your bandwidth speeds. You could put the app on the internet and let the users get to it using a browser or their Ntoes client. If performance is an issue, then you may want to put a server in each location, but I would test it by having only one server, first.

  4. Your internal users will have a choice, internet or internal. Depends on the requirements/performance.

  5. Domino server, Notes clients, and CAL pricing can be found here:

You should work with a Passport Advantage reseller for the latest pricing. What you see on the IBM site is Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Pricing (MSRP). Your price may be less.

HTH.

Gregg

Subject: IBM Lotus Notes and Domino licensing

The information about licensing is found here:IBM Products

I STRONGLY reccomend you work with a knowledgable IBM Business Partner on this project. Any upfront costs will easily be offset by their ability to help you define the correct architecture for this project.

Alan Lepofsky, IBM - Read my Lotus Notes Tips and Tricks Blog

Subject: RE: It sounds I was biased to LN opinion!

  1. What system architecture is recommended for LN: i.e. do I need to have a domino server in each clinic and let them store their own data or have it centrally in remote location.

  2. What type of network is required? Can I rely on the Internet broadband or have a network.


If 'twer me, and I was doing something where availability was important, I’d have as much stuff local as possible. If you do everything from a central shared server and anything gets in the way, you’re down everywhere until the problem(s) is/are resolved. If the ISP for the central server has a kickup - down. Server goes down, you have to rely on folks in the central location finding and fixing the problem.

I worked in one place where all the servers were in the main IT location - total PITA. Debugging problems was a nightmare - was it an app problem, a server problem, some admin change problem, WAN problem, and everybody is pointing to the other guy. gaaaaaaaa. Leave the server where I can hit the reset button and I’m a happy guy.

Just my opinion…

Doug

Subject: Late answer

You got most of it, but FWIW:

  1. If LN is considered then shall I implement a notes client or browser access. I find the notes clients is easier to implement. However, browser is required as means of access.
  • Actually the browser is so ubiquitous that you don’t need to implement anything. But app dev is far more powerful with the Notes client
  1. Speed performance is so cructial and they expect to use it like a desktop app speed. Now the question:

  2. What system architecture is recommended for LN: i.e. do I need to have a domino server in each clinic and let them store their own data or have it centrally in remote location.

  • I would recommend a server per clinic. Of course, you could have all data local and regularly replicated to a central server, but for reliability purposes you should have more than one point of access.
  1. What type of network is required? Can I rely on the Internet broadband or have a network.
  • Internet is more than enough for replication, but for client to server access it might be a bit slow. You would have to try for each clinic. And again, if the line fails you’re better off with a local server.
  1. Lastly, how about the issue of licensing cost of LN?
  • Dunno, check the other answers.

Good luck!

Subject: Should I got for Lotus Notes?? pls help

Mike, email me at nathan@emd.co.za. I’ve got a Notes app that probably already does what you need. It’s client rather than browser based, but that’s a significant advantage when you consider HIPAA security requirements for medical data.

Subject: Technical points…

Hi Mike

You state that your app will be used by up to 5,000 clinics - so ultimately up to 20,000 users (if you have 4 terminals in each clinic). Browser access is definitely the way to go - users are familiar with web applications and there is no overhead of maintaining all those installations!

With that many users, you will need to separate your application across multiple servers or it will be slow and your users will soon get annoyed! Why not start with one server and add more as required?

As for licensing, you will need the Domino Utility server license. I think that covers you for up to 10,000 users per server, but don’t quote me on that.

If you need any more info please let me know.

Ben

Subject: Should I got for Lotus Notes?? pls help

I don’t have anything to add on your application specific questions but thought I’d add a couple of cents on the system architecture and network questions.And unfortunately, I don’t have technical experience with some of the solutions I mention but I’ll put them out thier for discussion.

First off – network…

=====================================

DSL (even business class) doesn’t typically have a SLA. If it goes down, your provider gets it back up when they can.

I assume that these clinics aren’t under one organization (ACME for example), so each clinic connecting back to a central NOC/Datacenter for ALL access doesn’t come in to play. If this was the case, I’d have to recommend Frame Relay connections. Depending on how you configure them (with your telco provider) they are fast, stable and SLA’s are good.

If the clinics are, for all intents and purposes autonamous units responsible for thier own internet connections, you’ll probably have to live with what you get as far as connections. In practice, I’ve found that working with email (Notes client) over DSL and via the browser, it ususally quite reponsive depending on server loads.

Now for architecture …

=====================================

As mentioned in other reply to your post, the idea of servers at each location has advantages. You’ll not be dependent on a central location be up and available. With Notes, any changes made at a local clinic would replicate to the central server on a schedule you set and when communications between servers is available. BUT given you’re looking at 5000 clinics, you’re looking at considerable costs in hardware and licensing (OS and Lotus) at each location.

If you centralize your app you’ll also have upfront costs but may come out better than outfitting 5000 clinics. First off I’d recommend you have redundant paths to your central datacenter. (Different providers coming in to your facility from different locations - to protect against “bubba with a backhoe”).

Given the load your looking at putting on the server, you’ll want to span it across multiple servers. Start with a couple of servers maybe.

You can have the application on each server and either have scheduled replication or possible have the servers in a Domino Cluster (Dom Cluster is almost instanteous in keeping replicas uptodate). If you go with the cluster you can make use of Internet Cluster Manager (Domino Task) and let it load balance between your servers. Otherwise you’ll need to come up with a way of balancing traffic between servers.

Also note that HIPPA regs will require you to secure your app. Domino security is great but you’ll also need to secure your HTTP traffic via SSL. One way to balance traffic and also secure your app would be to utilize a content switch (Cisco makes several) with SSL accelerator. Give your users one address to point HTTPS to and let the content switch handle deciding which server is best situated to handle the connection. It also gives you the ability to pull a server offline for maintinance without affecting incoming connections.

Since you’re in the planning stages, you might also want to consider a Citrix Metaframe solution. We offer a number of applications (web and fat-client) via a browser based, HTTPS connection. Citrix can help balance the app across backend Domino servers and allows YOU to control Internet Explorers settings. I’m sure you’ll agree that end users left to thier own devices will load toolbars, adware and spyware without batting an eye. You’ll also take the local internet cache out of the security picture with this solution.

Ok, that was more like 83 cents but it’s food for thought.

PS - If you don’t already, find a good IBM/Lotus partner and work with them to determine licensing and if you need it, technical help.

Jay/network admin.

Subject: Should I got for Lotus Notes?? pls help

Mike,

If you want to keep busy, the exchange option is more appropriate.

If you use Notes, you won’t have to tweak the software every time a new version (or minor update) is released. Our extranet and web site systems have successfully upgraded from Releases 4.5 through to 7.0.1 (with a lot of interim releases in between). We have NEVER had to change a single line of code. (Of course we have changed code to take advantage of new features, but the point is that we don’t have to make changes in order to upgrade).

The other thing about a Notes system is that it is much lighter on resources. You need fewer servers than the MS technologies.

It’s hard not to be biased, but it really depends on how much you value your time.

Gavin.

Subject: RE: Should I got for Lotus Notes?? pls help

Mike,

We have just gone through this exercise. There was a corporate push to move everything to Microsoft. The license cost of the application was in the +$100,000 range not counting MS server and SQLServer costs. Notes 7 was a mere fraction of that. We use a mixture of web and thick client. Thick client here in the office and web for the remote users and customers.

With 5000 sites you might want to do something like regional servers to start that replicate back to a main server for backup.

Subject: Should I got for Lotus Notes?? pls help

I am both a Lotus Notes and .NET developer.

For me, it takes longer to setup and develop in .NET. However, .NET does have the advantages of providing good report as it has a RDBMS backend. The new Visual Studio 2005 is easy to use and deploy.

LN can be used to develop web application. This forum is developed using LN. The advantage of LN is that it’s easy to deploy and maintain. Of course, one of LN strength is its ability to do workflow.

I think you only need one web server. Remember this, i have started to use LN Release 7 and also participating in the trial with DB2. Soon, LN is capable of having both document type and RDBMS modelling, so it will be very powerful.

If you application also requires workflow then LN is the way to go.