Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

http://epromagazine.com/eparchive/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewarticle&ContentID=4300&websiteid=

I am not surprised. I expected it long time ago. Microsoft has got passion, resources, creativity and most important, they make the best user interfaces in the world. I am Lotus professional (CLP)but moving to .Net.

Same story repeated many times; Lotus 123/Excel, NetScape/IE, Novell/NT, Quicken/Money, Cold Fusion/ASP, Palm OS/Windows CE, and now happening to Nintendo/XBox, Notes/OutLook, Domino/Exchange, SameTime/Live Communication Server, Java/.Net, Oracle/SQL server, and many more.

Why are the beating competions every single time? They did not have monopoly in video games market and now they are no 2. If you ever study books written about Microsoft, you will find out. The answer is the Microsoft’s culture. These guys are thrilled, excited, motivated and driven.

I am very upset seeing Domino, a very powerful collaboration platform, going history in next 3-5 years.

Suggestions to IBM:

  1. You should have bought hotmail when Microsoft did. Why? Because they are working on a project to make user interface of hotmail like outlook web access interface. This will make users sooo much used to with their interface that they will find it very hard to learn any other interface. So IBM should start something like hotmail, a free web based service for private users, and make the interface like iNotes.

  2. Microsoft has launched Office Live service which works very well with Outlook. This gives users another reason to use Outlook and Messenger. IBM should partner up with WebEx or something or buy a company to compete. They should make it work seamless with SameTime and Notes client.

  3. You need to drastically improve your marketing. Just watch the ad from Microsoft (either for Office Live or Your Potential Our Passion) and you will find it obvious.

  4. Re-design user interface of Notes. Make it look similar to Outlook 2002 (or the latest). Their interface is slik, loads real fast and very intutive.

There is a lot more I have to say, but I am going to stop here, hoping that someone from IBM will listen.

Subject: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

Mail marketshare means quite nothing now…Microsoft for a long time has “given” exchange for free to whoever wants it, promissing the always coming next release will be bug free, secure etc etc…

Domino is not a mail platform only…it’s a collaborative platform. And now a member of Workplace, an even wider platform for collaboration.

If Domino becomes history for u, fine, that’s your choice and I can understand u find .net a “beautifull” environment. But for the rest of us, Domino is here to stay ! (read the recent IBM whitepapers about workplace to have clues of it)

Subject: RE: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

When IBM(ers) say MarketShare means nothing, that is almost an acceptance of failure. ColdFusion and NetScape lovers also said this as they started loosing the marketshare. Just search on Google between 1987-2000, on “MarketShare AND ColdFusion” and you will see similar replies from ColdFusion lovers.

My aim is not to put down Domino, but to draw attention that IBM needs to do something about it. I am very scared of Microsoft after seeing the same story repeated more than a dozen times.

Subject: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

…and I think the user experience is improving dramatically. It’ll take a lot longer than any of us would like to see the perceptions change IMHO.

…Neil

Subject: RE: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

Thanks to all of you for taking your time to read through my bit lengthy post. I am pleasantly surprise to see that there is still enthusiasm in Notes community.

Here is what I am seeing that may not be so obvious to some of you if you only deal with Fortune 500 clients:

I go to bookshop, (B&N, Borders) and find dozens of books on Exchange, entire sections on .Net and yet very few books on Domino and WebSphere.

I see shelves dedicated to Microsoft Press books but yet hardly any IBM Red books.

I search on Monster for Domino Developer jobs to get an idea of market demand and see very few matches. I search for .NET or Exchange, and get hundreds of matches, with many in six figures.

I look at Washington Post and see ads for Microsoft Training providers and hardly any ad on WebSphere or Domino training, which tells me what is hot.

I turn on radio driving to work, and at least hear 1-2 ads of Office Live or Live Communication Server ad. I hear .Net ads. Hardly hear any WebSphere ads or Domino ads.

I go home, tun on TV, and again see “Your Potential Our Passion” or “Office Live” ads. Only ads from IBM I see are about on demand/utility computing. No WebSphere or Domino ads.

I see my friends with Domino having hard time finding jobs, and a people with 6 months of .Net experience making six figures.

I looked at MSDN subscription and am very impressed with tons and tons of resources not just developers but for sales and marketing folks too. I see how organized, well written those CDs, Folders, Posters are. Then I see our PartnerWorld for Software subscription and I find it much inferior compare to MSDN in terms of quality, and resources. I would suggest IBM PartnerWorld folks to spend $2K and get MSDN subscription just to see and compare. You will find yourself what I am talking about.

I see Domino Express (for SMB) released now, when it should have been released 3-4 years ago. I have talked with IBM AMs and kept asking for something like this for a long time, but no one listened until now.

I see companies very careful about launching major Domino development projects because some feel it will be merged with WebSphere. I see so many CIOs confused about IBMs vision of Domino as component to WebSphere.

I see a lot more going on. IBM needs to do something. I hate to see Lotus123, NetScape, Novell, Quicken, ColdFusion, and donzens of other stories repeated again.

This is why I am learning .NET.

Subject: RE: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

Excellent post. I have to agree with virtually all the points you have made. I’m a PCLP so I have no reason to knock Domino or IBM but marketing has got to be improved massively, after all this is how Microsoft over the years have beaten the market leader in every area they have bothered with.

If you are in the UK you will have seen the Windows 2003 TV commercials and also the IBM ones. IBM’s are very glitzy and attempt to be very clever but you’re not sure about what they are try to sell. Microsoft’s are simple and too the point with a finale of ‘we saved the business £x million’, whilst IBM’s commercials have a load of old coggers sitting round the table talking about god knows what.

These two different commercials sum up the difference between the two Companies and why Microsoft has won every ‘war’ it’s ever fought.

Subject: RE: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

Thanks to all of you who have replied.

Yes we know Domino is better product.

Yes we know Microsoft’s way of head count may not be accurate.

Yes we know they are giving it away for free.

But we also know:

Netscape was a better product, and Microsoft started giving away IE free.

PS2 is better product and is loosing share against XBox. They have already wiped out Nintendo and are number 2. And yes Microsoft is loosing money in every XBox sold. But these guys are too smart, they think in the long run. They wipe out the competition and then increase prices (Check out prices of Office XP, Windows XP, etc, and compare them with prices a few years ago when there was some competition). It doesn’t take a Harvard MBA to figure it out.

I can go on and on and give dozens of examples when Microsoft launched products and wiped out market leading product in few years.

Can someone give me one example where another company launched a product and wiped out Microsoft’s product?

These guys are way too smart, focused and driven. After observing them for years, reading many books about them, asking friends who work in IBM, I have figured out IBM’s culture is very different from Microsoft.

Microsoft goes out of their way to hire best talent. They hire top students of top international universities; they hire top performers of top companies. They know how to do business and have proven it with over $40+ billion cash reserves. (The next company, Cisco has $10+ billion cash).

Many people don’t like them, but no one has guts to win against them even on a single product so far. IBM, Oracle and Sun are only few companies who could, if they have the same level of energy, and enthusiasm. They should realize it before its too late.

Subject: Boy, I bet Microsoft wishes it was all as easy as you think

Microsoft is having a horrible time getting their message straight and convincing people to buy into their constant upgrade scenario. More and more companies have balked at the subscription model, given the shoddy security and endless virus problems with Exchange, the lack of new features in Office, and the unreliability of Windows Server 2003, or whatever they are calling it now. The Longhorn fiasco is a classic example, with a product that has been pushed out to 2006, and is still touted as having functionality that Lotus has today. Vaporware! FUD! You are doing a great job of spreading it, but I don’t see how you justify it.

By the way, I tested your theory yesterday, and the local CompuUSA had as many books about Notes/Domino and other IBM products as those about Microsoft. They had many others about other software products and companies, such as Oracle, but certainly nothing to lead one to believe Microsoft was leading the market.

I checked Monster.com and search for Microsoft Exchange and then Lotus Notes, Lotus Domino (trying to find the comparable search). Sure, there were 207 for Microsoft and 125 for Notes/Domino, but that is not a huge difference, and the Lotus Notes jobs appeared to be more senior in general and better paying.

Why has IBM lead the messaging and collaboration field for over ten years if Microsoft is so good at this game?

I am n independent ISV. I have built products for other companies, and could again, but my business is booming in the Notes/Domino market. I have had the best year ever already, and the year isn’t over. I have customers in 42 countries, and I hear a lot of general feedback about Notes/Domino, as well as SameTime and Quickplace (or whatever they are known as now). The feedback is very positive. Notes/Domino 6 is hot, and getting hotter. Why the heck do you think IBM is backing up on their “All websphere, all the time!” matra? Because the market ius speaking, and it says it likes Notes/Domino.

Microsoft certainly does think about the long term, but so does IBM, and I would certainly not bet on Microsoft with the way it is flailing about, trying to figure out what the heck the long term in going to bring. Backing off of .NET already? Jeez, it has barely become the startegy. Microsoft may be good at marketing, and they are, but even they are having trouble marketing the hodgepodge of incompatible systems and incompatible strategies they have today, and probably will have tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

[Netscape was a better product, and Microsoft started giving away IE
free.
]

Netscape was not a better product. As of version 3 of each browser, they had
basic feature and performance parity. When each company released their version
4, Microsoft had outpaced Netscape in standards adherence and programability.
The fact that they shipped it with the OS for free also helped, but the fact is
that both programs were free for pretty much their entire lives. There’s
really not much of a comparison here. The browser wars were all about who
could lose money faster for longer, and Microsoft had real revenue streams
while Netscape didn’t do anything but sell shares.

[PS2 is better product and is loosing share against XBOx.]

The PS2 is not necessarily a better product than Xbox, particularly since these
hardware platforms are very dependent on the games released on them. The Xbox
is a very good console product, and is a case-study in how general purpose
computing hardware can compete on a price point with specific-purpose
hardware. But it doesn’t change the fact that Microsoft is bleeding money like
an anemic from their Xbox division, while Playstation is an absolute cash cow
for Sony. Once again, Microsoft is racing to lose money. And with $40B in
reserves, they can afford to do that right now.

[THey have already wiped out Nintendo and are number 2.]

Nintendo wiped out Nintendo. Late products and lousy games cost them their
share. The market chased Mature audience games, while Nintendo stuck to
MarioKart.

[But these guys are too smart, they think in the long run. They wipe out
the competion and then increase prices
]

I look forward to the results of Microsoft’s predatory price war with Sony. If
you think MS is smart and thinks in the long run, you know nothing about the
Japanese.

[ can go on and on and give dozens of examples when Microsoft launched
products and wiped out market leading product in few years.
]

And I can give dozens of examples where products were wiped out without
Microsoft. So what?

[Can someone give me one example where another company launched a product
and wiped out Microsoft’s product?
]

Why would you expect there to be any examples of this? Microsoft’s products
don’t get “wiped out” because they redefine products that aren’t doing well as
components of other products that are doing well. You used to pay for Media
Player. In it’s original version, you were supposed to buy IE (nobody did).
You used to have to drop cash for Outlook. One out of 50 people bought
PowerPoint before it was forcibly rolled into Office. Same with FrontPage.
And Access. Remember FoxPro? How about Microsoft Bob? Encarta? Bookshelf?
Windows for Workgroups? MS Works? MSN (as an ISP rather than an ad vehicle?)
The Microsoft set-top box?

MS doesn’t employ inherently smarter developers. They might be a more
productive software company, and they are extremely adept at evolving their
products, primarily because they have no “not developed here” syndrome
whatsoever. They have fundamentally humble coders, and that’s a big advantage
for them. But make no mistake, IBM, Oracle and Sun are all competing quite
effectively against Microsoft. IBM in particular, has the strength of a
diverse revenue model

Subject: RE: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

Indeed the Xbox makes a decent Linux machine for only $160. Sell the bundled games and controllers on Ebay :slight_smile:

Subject: RE: Notes/Domino has a better place within IBM now…

heh. The great thing about that is that MS takes, like, $100 loss leader on your Linux box. I wanna get those things and set them up as network discovery boxes, then just walk into corporate networks and plug them into spare CAT5 jacks behind desks n’ stuff. :slight_smile:

Subject: Factor in cost

From another “Radicati” document, this helps the cause:-jmw

In terms of Administration costs, IBM Lotus Software had the lowest

Administration cost with $12.56/user, followed by Oracle with $17.74/user,

Sun with $18.00/user, and Microsoft with $42.90/user.

We found that IBM Lotus Software ND6 had the most automated

administrative tasks of all the environments which we surveyed. This was a

major factor in its low Administration cost per user.

http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/cs/docs/2003TCOSummary.pdf

Subject: RE: Factor in cost

I agree but this is not the point. Domino is a better product than Exchange, but in spite of this Microsoft gets away by grabing more market share. If Domino was like Exchange and Exchange was like Domino, no body would be using Domino.

Exchange in spite of lacking features and higher TCO, has won the market battle. Doesn’t this tell you something about IBM’s marketing?

Subject: I don’t know. IBM has said for years that the seat war is over.

Ever since Microsoft started ‘polluting’ te seat numbers, IBM has refrained from fighting the seat war. And they have publicly stated why they did that, at Lotusphere 2001 I think. That was when every analyst agreed that Lotus held a bigger marketshare.

You know, almost all of my Domino customers also count as exchange/outlook seats, because they bought a software package from Microsoft that includes Exchange licenses, wether you want them or not. One customer tried to get rid of those Exchange licenses, because they wouldn’t be using it anyway. Microsoft then explained them that leaving out the exchange licenses actually costs more! In other words, they are not only giving it away, you end up paying more in some cases if you don’t want the stuff :wink:

BTW, this report is the first that says Exchange has the largest part of the pie. We’ll see what other analysts come up with before accepting this as a fact.

Subject: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

Well I have to respond to:

“2. Microsoft has launched Office Live service which works very well with Outlook. This gives users another reason to use Outlook and Messenger. IBM should partner up with WebEx or something or buy a company to compete. They should make it work seamless with SameTime and Notes client.”

You should check out our solution, you don’t need Sharpoint portal, you don’t need to upgrade to Outlook 2003, you don’t need Windows 2003 server and Active Directory, it works with Sametime, provides instant meetings, messages and more features than Microsoft LCS etc. etc.

Carl

Subject: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

I agree with you, i don’t know what is happening with IBM, they don’t adopt the standards or they include it lately.

As everybody knows XML is standard used for many other companies and the new internet boom are Web Services(.net to be more clear)

Like XML, SOAP,UDDI,WSDL are standards for Web Services but guess what?? DOMINO 6.5 this SUPERBERB version doesn’t include it.

Is out of my understanding what they are THINKING ( if they are doing it), how they release a NEW version without standards,

HEY guys, Do you know about “GLOBAL VILLAGE”?, Do you understand that everybody needs standards?

we know that you adopted

ASCII, HTTP, TCP/IP, HTML, Unicode, XML(old standards)

but we need the new ones

Subject: RE: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

Yeah, 'cause Domino 6 doesn’t have anything going on with XML. Nope. Totally XML ignorant.

Oh wait, except maybe for that whole DXL thing, which provides a read-write XML model for every object in Domino. Yeah, there’s that. But otherwise, Domion doesn’t know XML. And that sucks. Big time.

You tell 'em, Javier.

Subject: *Why do you think they don’t support XML? SOAP is pretty easy with Domino 6.5 as well.

Subject: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

Do you really think it’s relevant for Microsoft to claim that there are more
individual users of Outlook than Notes? Or Exchange than Domino? They aren’t
selling those seats – they’re giving them away. And the recipients are using
them to delete spam and spread viruses, not conduct business.

[Microsoft has got passion, resources, creativity and most important, they
make the best user interfaces in the world.
]

Best user interfaces, huh? You mean like folders lists that sort only
alphabetically, putting the Inbox halfway down the screen? MS has as many
interface issues as every other major software developer – people are just
accustomed to the Microsoft shortcomings.

[I am Lotus professional (CLP)but moving to .Net.]

Even if they design the world’s best interfaces, they still can’t produce
products that get business solutions out the door quickly. .Net won’t be any
different.

[Same story repeated many times; Lotus 123/Excel, NetScape/IE, Novell/NT,
Quicken/Money, Cold Fusion/ASP, Palm OS/Windows CE, and now happening to
Nintendo/XBox, Notes/OutLook, Domino/Exchange, SameTime/Live Communication
Server, Java/.Net, Oracle/SQL server, and many more.
]

This is a good example of the rhetorical technique of getting your audience to
nod their heads at the beginning, then duping them into continuing to nod them
at the end. Domino still leads Exchange in revenue dollars. Sametime is far
ahead of LCS. Java continues to kick the snot out of .Net as a development
platform. Oracle is in no danger from Microsoft SQL Server, which has just
announced yet another delay. PalmOS has not been eclipsed by WinCE by any
stretch. And Nintendo vs. Xbox!? Have you been paying attention? The leader
in the console market is SONY, not Nintendo. And Microsoft loses money on
every Xbox sold – which sounds like a 1997 business plan.

[Why are the beating competions every single time? They did not have
monopoly in video games market and now they are no 2.
]

In a market with 3 players, one of whom was already getting flogged by Sony,
and where they are losing money hand over fist. But yeah, they’re still
beating the competition, if the race is to lose money faster.

[If you ever study books written about Microsoft, you will find out. The
answer is the Microsoft’s culture. These guys are thrilled, excited, motivated
and driven.
]

And unethical, untruthful and irresponsible. Just like a lot of the rest of
the corporate world.

[I am very upset seeing Domino, a very powerful collaboration platform,
going history in next 3-5 years.
]

A refrain sung every year for the last 8 years, and yet, here we all are.

[1. You should have bought hotmail when Microsoft did. Why? Because they
are working on a project to make user interface of hotmail like outlook web
access interface. This will make users sooo much used to with their interface
that they will find it very hard to learn any other interface. So IBM should
start something like hotmail, a free web based service for private users, and
make the interface like iNotes.
]

Here’s a cheaper idea: make a skin for the Notes mail template that looks like
that Outlook interface. Then Microsoft can invest billions in training people
on their free interface, and get no competitive advantage whatsoever!

[2. Microsoft has launched Office Live service which works very well with
Outlook. This gives users another reason to use Outlook and Messenger. IBM
should partner up with WebEx or something or buy a company to compete. They
should make it work seamless with SameTime and Notes client.
]

Ummmm… have you looked at Notes 6.5? No? Check it out.

[3. You need to drastically improve your marketing. Just watch the ad from
Microsoft (either for Office Live or Your Potential Our Passion) and you will
find it obvious.
]

Well, this I can’t necessarily argue with. MS ads are masterful at showing a
utopian world of business. Their products don’t do anything to accomplish that
– but in the advertising game, unless Ralph Nader is chasing you down, that’s
not really relevant.

[4. Re-design user interface of Notes. Make it look similar to Outlook
2002 (or the latest). Their interface is slik, loads real fast and very
intutive.
]

There is nothing more intuitive about Outlook than Notes. The fact that many
users have Outlook at home (because it ships with the OS and is free) makes
them more familiar with it in an office environment, and therefore lowers the
learning curve. But there is nothing inherently better about it. And it sure
as hell doesn’t load faster. Outlook takes 15-20 seconds to shut down!

Make a skinnable version of the Notes mail template that looks like Outlook.
Then Microsoft can give their client away to every man, woman and child on
earth, and again, it’s zero competitive advantage.

[There is a lot more I have to say, but I am going to stop here, hoping
that someone from IBM will listen.
]

Come up with some more realistic ideas, and they just might.

Here’s the dirty little secret about Microsoft: you know why they’re building
such a large cash reserve? Because they’re accounting practices have
positioned them to be the next Enron. You see, they have compensating their
employees with enormous amounts of stock options. But by US laws and GAAP
practices, they aren’t required to list these options as a liability. This is
compensation paid essentially directly by the shareholders of the company, in
the form of dilution of shares. The company keeps a large cash reserve so that
it can buy back shares on the market, and keep the price shored up. But that
also means that they have a huge off-book liability. And if they’re cash
reserves every start to fade, whether due to continued losses in the console
market, or the loss of upgrade-cycle revenue (anyone particularly motivated to
move to Office 2003?), the much vaunted Microsoft is going to look very
unattractive indeed.

Subject: Exchange tops Domino in marketshare

This thread really just underscores that IBM needs to explain their strategy alot better, word has to get out to the world, not just the BP community.

Notes and Domino aren’t going anywhere, in a few years it will be even more formidable than it is now - think what if notes were a relational db?

As for open standards…I think your facts need to be researched a bit better. XML is an inherent part of Notes, and making SOAP calls is not hard at all.