Why do I feel so guilty?

HCL Domino Domino Forum
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Hello, all!

I’m what you’d call a typical, old fashioned Lotus Notes programmer. I’ve been doing this since R4.5, and am fluent in @Formulas, @Commands, lotusscript, etc. On the web side, I’m strong in javascript, html, dhtml, css2 and ajax. I’ve built CRMs, WCMs, and tons of other big & small projects.

We have tens of thousands of Notes mail users, most of whom don’t know that you can build apps with Notes/Domino. As such, we have bought big, entreprise wide CRM, WCM, ECM, ERP, and any other acronym you can think of! None of these are Notes, and none of these are IBM, even though we have the whole Notes infrastructure already in place.

Why do I feel guilty that I didn’t do more in pushing Notes/Domino apps over the past couple of years I was here? Is it really my fault, being a lowly peon and the only 100% Notes person here?

Why is it that Lotus Notes is coming upon it’s 20th anniversary, and still people think it’s only for mail?

Am I crazy to think like this? Any other dinosaurs like me out there who feel the same way? :wink:

Thanks, in advance!

Steve in NYC

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Subject: I feel your pain

I was a the sole developer for a large company for many years myself. Intermittently I would embark on a “marketing” quest by literally doing a ‘road show’ whereby I went from department to department using myriad applications custom built by me and extolling the virtues of the possibilities for them. Every once in a while, I’d have someone actually come back and say, “Hey, I think we can use this for our stuff…”. But for the most part, it remained a mystery for our community at large.

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Subject: RE: I feel your pain

Howdy!

Yeah… I’ve built a couple of small custom applications for the big boss, and he and his group are happy to be using it! It will be replaced by the CRM sometime in the next year or so (which happens sometimes, I know). I offered unofficially to build a CRM for them, so we’ll see how this other thing goes.

In the meantime, I’ve received some terrific “thank you” letters, and some very high profile projects, even though they weren’t very technically challenging. :slight_smile:

Take care!

Steve in NYC

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Subject: RE: I feel your pain

I think you hit the nail on the head. Some of the ‘Best’ projects are not necessarily the most technically challenging, but because the meet a specific business need they have a great impact. I was called into a client to re-build an application that had been around for several years and it really needed to get upgraded and ‘modernized’. It was a major technical challenge and took a lot of time and effort. One day in talking with the Manager he pointed out a really business problem they were experiencing. I went back to my office that day and put together a simple prototype and showed it to him the next day. He loved it and a week later it was in production. I was a hero the only problem was that I realistically could only bill about 15 -20 hours on the project but it saved the company thousand.

So the pick the person and pick the project to get a quick win and then the next battle will be much easier.

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Subject: That’s been a problem with Notes projects for forever… re: I feel your pain

Because Notes/Domino solutions can often be built and delivered so quickly, they often simply don’t reach the scale where they capture the attention of senior management. Which are you going to pay attention to: the 20 hour project that gets delivered and becomes so key to your business that you don’t even notice it? Or the 5000 hour project that’s a multi-million dollar investment and has a team of 10 FTEs?

The strategy for the Notes advocate has to be: GROW YOUR PROJECTS. Sure, rapid prototyping and delivery is all good, but wrap a ton of stuff around it. Make a point of getting specs from any one even remotely involved. Book time for extensive system documentation, for testing, for cross-system integration, for staging environments and always, ALWAYS, plan a next phase for your efforts.

It’s counter-intuitive, but the fact of the matter is that Notes & Domino are typically just too inexpensive and effective a platform in gunslinger deployments. You must define your projects on a scale that’s competitive with stuff like ERP systems to get the kind of attention you need. Simply replacing Excel templates and file shares isn’t going to cut it.

But you have an advantage over the big iron implementations – you can demo sooner. Just never let 'em think the demo means you’re done.

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Subject: Why do I feel so guilty?

Steve:

I think that you need to put on your “Evangelist” hat and do some promoting. Or get your manager(s) to buy in and do it.

To that end, Tom Duff and I created the “Lotus Viral Marketing” blog, which has some ideas for you.

http://www.lotusviralmarketing.com

Click on the “Evangelism” category. There might be something useful there for you.

Good luck.

Gregg

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

To me, thats the big problem with Notes, and I have commented on this before…in spite of its technical advantages, its great functionality, all the advantages…Notes is always kind of an also-ran. Even the minority that understand that its not just an email program, you always hear a lot of comments like “well, you cant integrate it with Java, because Notes and Java don’t get along” or “Domino databases are basically a toy, and just are not scalable enough for production” and all kinds of junk like that.

I really don’t know why this is…but I have a guess it has something to do with Bob Balaban over there getting ready to put the remote Java stuff into the HTTP stream to solve perceived “problems”…and no one wants it. Its kind of that itself is not the problem, but its a manifestation of the same kind of disconnect, somehow Slot Demo Pragmatic Terbaru & Akun Demo Slot Gacor Tanpa Registrasi

and then you get all the stuff like the post that this is a response to , Lotus has for years had this kind of philosophy that their products’ developers should also be kind of evangelists/salespeople. I don’t buy it at all. Lots of people do though, and are ready to carry that load, too, for Lotus/IBM.

At some point, you have to wonder what are the root causes of this, and what your best response/reaction should be. I am still wondering about these questions.

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Howdy!

I, for one, remember ONE IBM commercial specifically for Lotus Notes. And this was perhaps 8-10 years ago!

A guy comes back from a fishing trip, all tanned with pictures on the wall of him catching big fish, being in all sorts of places, and his boss comes in to say:

“Hey, John! Nice to have you back. We’re using Lotus Notes now, so you’ll never even have to leave your office! Isn’t that great?” Then, John kinda smiles, then looks down somewhat dejected.

Is it just me, or how can it be that in ten years, I remember the one and only commercial I’ve ever seen? Anybody remember any others?

This may sound odd, but if IBM is selling the product, shouldn’t they be advertising it? Hmm… I don’t have any marketing degree, so I guess not.

IBM’s current campaign is cryptic at best, and very vague. Somewhat entertaining, though. :wink:

In terms of Java, I’ve only needed to use it a few times in the applications I’ve built over the years. I’ve been able to do everything with lotusscript, javascript, ajax, xml, etc…

Thanks!

Steve in NYC

“We anticipate a global world-market with place for perhaps five computers.” - Tom Watson, IBM 1949

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Personally , my own opinion is…

I think a lot the reluctance of corporate America to accept Notes has a lot to do with the name. Notes. Just sounds lightweight. Non-techincal managers use SAP , JDEdwards, SQL, and …Notes. Everyone knows what notes are , they’re just the kind of administrivia that goes along with the real project. It just has a very fluffy, kind of optional, second-tier-of-importance feel to it.

Domino. What an unfortunate name for a corporate tool for mission critical applications. Named after a now-nostalgia-inducing toy. Everyone knows about Dominos, they’re simple childs games.

All these associations are far from the truth…but really , what the heck is the reason for these crummy names ? If YOU didn’t know anything technical, but did know that all the other stuff in your organization had slightly intimidating, hard-core-technology sounding names, what would YOU think. Technical people are so far from thinking like this, its almost not reasonable-sounding…but I really think the widespread perception of Notes as a kind of software - second stringer has a lot to do with these associations.

For version 9, they should really consider dropping the Notes/Domino thing and rename it something that has a competitive sounding, real-world inspired name.

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Hmm… hadn’t thought of that at all. I think I smell a new thread starting on the / R9 forum! :wink:

Cheers!

Steve in NYC

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Howdy!

Actually, I think I lost my “Evangelist” hat. I’m just wondering how people have been using Notes mail here for 15 years, have had many applications built for them, (some good, some bad), and still people don’t know about it. As an aside, I remember seeing one IBM add on Notes/Domino in the late 90s, which was still kindof vague if you didn’t know the software.

Thanks for the site, btw! (a job opening on the front page? Being subtle, there, Gregg?) :wink:

Take care!

Steve in NYC

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Subject: Why do I feel so guilty?

“Is it really my fault, being a lowly peon and the only 100% Notes person here?”

Yep, it is. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Interesting discussion which could apply to almost any company I have worked for.

The problem is that we have always let IT being driven from top down. It has to be driven from the bottom up.

It department have to become Internal Sales department. We have to go up the Ivory tower, listen to what they say and come up and present solutions.

Domino is an excellent platform for lots of things. I have seen miracles done on it. Small and big. One client alone ended up with a 1000% ROI on the first season alone. Now they want more.

I guess it all comes down to what I read a few days ago. The worst thing IT can do is just sit there and make sure it works.

People are intelligent and resourceful. If they have a need, they will find a way to fill it.

Now, is it OK if they do not come down to the IT Dept to ask those questions? Has the IT Dept made itself available for them to do that?

I guess that’s a whole 'nother discussion…

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Subject: Why do I feel so guilty?

Because you know your mother would be disappointed in you? :wink:

Seriously, you were let down by IBM during the Dark Times ™. So that didn’t help.

But if you feel like you coulda/shoulda done more, it’s never too late to start. Head out to OpenNTF.org, download a few applications, sign 'em, and put 'em up on a server. Then send out invitations to some people you think might be in need. If you can demonstrate quick, easily-deployable value, then maybe you can start turning heads tomorrow!

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Subject: Why do I feel so guilty?

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

I assume that’s all sarcasm because Domino certainly isn’t unreliable and it’s not too difficult to develop quality applications for Notes. It may not always be the right tool for the task at hand but we’ve been very happy with the results for the 10+ years we’ve been using it.

  • David
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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Yet again, Notes gets the blame for other inadequacies. I would ask the more concerning question why there was no backup for an app that 8 people were working on. That is bad administration and very bad management.

But hey…“just get someone’s replica”. NO! It is called a replica rather than a backup for a reason. And if you are depending on it as your backup, take the time to check the replication formulas to ensure it has every document in it (readers fields for starters may cause you a problem)

Also - why worry about DOCUMENTS in a developer’s replica? Surely developers have the design and the live application is on a server somewhere that does get backed up? No? Oh dear - you get everything you deserve then

“No one checks when everything seems ok”. I think you have painted the picture we all need to know about how that particular project was managed Willy!

Would you develop a .NET app without backing stuff up?

Mike

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

Right you are, Mike.

At one of my previous employers, Notes was not considered “mission critical” so it did not qualify for redundancy, etc. except that the company found out how “mission critical” it was when the mail server’s hardware failed and business could not be conducted (in that company, a lot of orders and other essential communication was conducted via e-mail).

At that same employer, Notes was criticized because it was “outdated” even though I’m aware that they were still using R5 servers into 2007, well beyond the end of support term for the product. I wonder whether the company would have considered running a 1995 Oracle version, without ever upgrading it and not giving it the appropriate support, and seeing if it seemed “outdated”.

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Subject: RE: Why do I feel so guilty?

I don’t know the specifics of the project Willy is referring to.

And of course, I love Domino!

But, I do know that Willy Lorenzo has a brilliant mind and sure to be fabulous developer.

Back in the V2-V3 days… we had no @Sum function…

Willy was known to all in the Partner’s forum as “The Great Wilfredo”, and came up with this awesome formula to sum a list of values…

Surely, some of you old timers remember “The Great Wilfredo”

I sure do! And I was in awe of him, like I am of Stan Rogers, Rocky Oliver, Andre, Wild Bill and so many others…