The Future for Domino

HCL Domino Domino Forum
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Hi there!!

I feel I am at a cross roads now… Ive been working

with Lotus Domino since 1996 although for the first

three years of that the projects wernt great and my

learning curve was slow. That HAS changed. Still

though I would like to develope myself as a paerson.

Im 31 (how young are you?) and I do love

programming/development but I feel I need something

more or at least different. Have you worked much with

WebSphere? What are your career goals? I guess I am

looking for inspiration. I would like to take the

Project Management Institute exams but I dont want to

leave development as I feel I was on an slow learning

curve…

Anyway let us know if you can inspire me! :slight_smile:

The Doc!

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Subject: The Future for Domino

Four letter word: J2EE

Know it and know it cold, because that is where the domino platform is headed as components are broken out.

And yes, M$ will try to kill SameTime if and when they successfully deploy Greenwich.

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Subject: RE: The Future for Domino

  1. AOL and MSN are quite different than from Lotus Notes. If people love to not know anything about their internet account cool, get those services. SO this is not a good focal point to your arugment. I can speak about MS tring to destroy Linux, but it does not the same as what the user is asking.

  2. Where were you in the 90s when R5 came out. I believe there was advertisement going on there. Just because I have a commercial does not mean I am going to have a good product. Do you we remember all those internet companies who advertise during the Super Bowl and were gone within months after the broadcast?

  3. But why is M$ using .NET?? Is it because they got their pants sued for distributing Java without following the rules Sun wants things to be done. I mean .NET is cool, but hey .NET is going to pass viruses out just like all the out M$ stuff that is bound to the operating system.

  4. Don’t forget that M$ is changing the way to alert of their security holes to the public; a.k.a. allow hackers to quickly attack their software. IBM is just a J2EE company there is nothing wrong with it. Oh wait Lotus works for MySQL too and does M$ share that fact?

  5. No really statement for me to counter. I believe you are not well aware of the business partner channels. I belong to both Software and Developer and get many emails and invitations from big blue so I don’t follow your logic.

Certifications are going to help you no matter what you do. But you did not answer the poor’s guys question. Maybe you need to help the gent out and get off the M$ lecture.

If you are going to compare software companies, then do it more evenly.

Lotus servers works on NT, Linux, AIX, Solaris, System/390, and As/400.

M$ servers only work on windows platforms.

.NET only works on M$ platform – Linux can not use .NET stuff. So tell me how great is that.

I like the fact I can use web browser and Java and can use IBM software to work and connect to all my users.

I think you need to help people out than preach about M$ after reading your message the poor gent is going to be as confused as most people (What is your point). To me you see to be a Notes/NT guy than a person who is open minded to other ways of doing things.

HTH – Cheers – Email in profile – try to not post about M$ if it is not going to help someone out. It is a waste of a thread.

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Subject: RE: The Future for Domino

I suppose you’re not doing any business outside the USA…

Don’t get me wrong, starting a political discussion here is the latest thing I want to do.

But the war in Iraq is -at least here- a very controversial item. Binding a product brand to such item isn’t very clever. If such an ad would be used, I’d rater wouldn’t be selling Lotus products in the middle east …

And again : I’m not expessing any political opinion here, so please don’t start argueing about the war here.

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Subject: The irony of your proposed ad is…

most of the agencies mentioned use exchange (and I heard a rumour that that will be the standard platform for Homeland security)…

and should Sabre rattling be the marketing tool of choice?

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Subject: RE: The Future for Domino

But if you want to based your facts on open jobs that is pointless. Not all people are going to invest in monster.com. And the people in the Lotus jobs doing the good work that their employers want (those champions) are not looking to leave and those jobs aren’t going to be posted on monster.com.

What you don’t realize is that you are showing a need of .NET developers. Good, but does that mean the marketshare is not there? I don’t believe so.

Back to AOL/MSN who cares if M$ wants to beat up AOL – that does not prove your point that M$ is better in advertising. Yes AOL is big (if you refer to them to be as big as IBM).

Tell me how M$ is going to collaborate with non-M$ platform stuff. The model you are sharing is only from the M$ view. Does your model play well if Oracle is the relation database? Does your model play well if the company wants to lower the TCO (total cost of ownership) with using Linux?

Take your sample ads as just that samples. I don’t see a factual sample add that can do things as well as a Lotus environment – a collaborative environment.

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Subject: RE: The Future for Domino

Jon,

Give me a break. Lotus <> Microsoft. Lotus competes with one small aspect of Microsoft’s portfolio, so comparing job listings for Lotus to Microsoft is as bad a comparison as your analog to AOL vs. MSN advertising. Let’s try IBM or IBM Software. Lotus is just a brand.

I’m not sure why you (and others) always equate advertising with marketing. First, we are doing advertising right now – readers of either of my weblogs know I’ve been highlighting Lotus’s participation in “can you see it?” I can’t seem to avoid the Lotus Instant Messaging (Sametime) banner ads on the web (there have been millions of “impressions” for these banner ads etc. in the last few months). Second, we’re doing tons of marketing activity, and I’m not going to start generating a list here. But it’s been darn busy with stuff that you should be able to see – not just on Rapid Application Development Platform | HCL Domino, but roadshows, alliances, etc.

On the business partner front, a ton of stuff going on there, too. Are you active (still/again) in the BP Forum? People like Alan Lepofsky and myself post stuff there all the time around the stuff we are doing for partners. We just finished up a great new brochure that describes the whole value of the Lotus brand for business partners. I’ll post the URL as soon as it is up on the PartnerWorld website.

It’s hard for me to keep reading when I get to your usual criticism --Lotus (or IBM) marketing “sucks” (you’ve used the exact word four times here in the last month). Hey Jon – the front page of your organization’s website is advertising your services to help companies move to Notes R5. How about being part of the solution, and focusing on Notes/Domino 6, which has been shipping for nine months now?

–Ed/IBM Lotus

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Subject: A morale issue, perhaps we need some ‘buzz’

My own impression is that many stalwarts in the Domino community are feeling somewhat beaten down; though perhaps it is just me, projecting this onto others.

I don’t think this is anyone’s fault, it is all part of living in a corner of the gorilla cage. I think IBM is doing a decent job of marketing for stasis, but it is clear that it considers WebSphere to be the growth product and that Domino/Notes will merge into it with time, allbeit in an respectable way.

No-one wants to be bounded by a static or shrinking market opportunity.

Assurances about Domino/WebSphere merging into a future product with a bright future, are good, and perhaps prevent people abandoning Domino, but they are not inspiring (perhaps they will become so in time).

One action that I recommend: expand the Notes client platform options (“oh no! here he goes again” – yes the dreaded ‘L’ word) by offering some form of WINE compatibility assurance for the client. I have made the case for this, poorly, several times in the past, and I strongly believe it is worth doing on its own merits. It would also send a powerful signal and generate some ‘buzz’. We all miss buzz – there just hasn’t been much for years now.

Another to be considered: include Lotus Workflow in the client for particular classes of server (perhaps the Utility server?)

This probably all seems irrelevent to the topic at hand, and my apologies for that, but there is a crisis of confidence in IBM’s level of belief in ND. Despite evidence to the contrary, and a good solid roadmap, many people seem to believe that IBM is just going to milk the current installed base, investing as little as possible in the future.

There is much to applaud in IBM’s recent development efforts: IM integration into Notes in 6.5 is a first class move, for example, and deserves more praise here.

A set of tangible actions that shows that IBM expects the ND market to expand in the future are what is needed. We need a range of tools to go on the offensive effectively.

Cheers,

Andy

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Subject: AHA! Perhaps Workplace is it …

After prompting by Ed is his blog and reading Justin Knol’s views, I finally went and watched the Workplace strategy webcast. Strongly recommended.

It does indeed look rather impressive, I concur with Justin’s assessment.

I am now bursting with curiosity about the ‘rich client’.

Anyway, props to Lotus for coming through with what looks like a killer strategy!! What is even better is that I believe them when they say they can deliver it. I suspect that Bill Gates will again label it ‘a poor operating system’ and spend ten years trying (and failing) to emulate it with ‘Longdelay’ or some such.

My morale is certainly much improved, I feel like IBM/Lotus is a company with a vision I can rely on again.

=B-)

P.S. Honestly I didn’t look at any of the Lotus Workplace stuff until after my previous post.

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Subject: I have to agree

I watched the webcast recently and was very enthusiastic in the BP forum. I probably should have posted here as well.

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Subject: WebSphere is NOT a product, it is a Brand.

I am tired of people talking about how much more attention WebSphere gets Domino does. I am on a cross functional team that works between the WebSphere and Lotus brands. My counterparts in WebSphere complain just as much as any of you do, that they do not see ads for WebSphere Application Server, or for WebSphere Portal.

Check out http://www-3.ibm.com/e-business/index.html… guess who is featured… Ambuj Goyal, GM of Lotus!

Alan

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Subject: OK, relax. I am not complaining …

… about how much more advertising the WebSphere brand is getting (I have no idea whether it is). I see that I have indeed confused the Lotus and WebSphere brands and products. I’ll try to be clearer in future.

What I was trying to explain, perhaps badly, is that many people in the ND community have been feeling pretty unhappy for the last while. ‘IBM promises continued support’ is good to hear, but it is also a death sentence of a sort.

What we needed IMHO was a tangible view of expanded opportunities, not just marketingspeak, fluffy concept diagrams, and promises. We needed a sense of true committment by IBM.

As I explained in my other posting, the Lotus Workplace webcast brought all of this into focus for me and made me MUCH happier with the IBM/Lotus/Domino/WebSphere/brand/product thing.

Please remember that you are much better informed about the future of these products & brands than we, though we are just as dependant on IBM making correct decisions as you (and in many cases, more so).

Andy

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Subject: Ok, what you are asking for is certainly reasonable…

… so what would equal a “tangible view of expanded opportunities”? And opportunities for what? For creating collaborative solutions using technologies from IBM which involve messaging, instant messaging, awareness, web conferencing, team workspaces, e-learning, document management, expertise location, etc? Opportunities to expand the reach of Domino applications to using things like the new Portlet Builder for Domino or the Lotus Domino Toolkit for WebSphere Studio? Or… opportunities just from creating Domino applications, nothing more, nothing less?

You mentioned getting a great deal of benefit from the Workplace webcast… did you also watch Ken Bisconti’s messaging one? We have been showcasing the Notes 6.5 client, Domino Web Access (iNotes), and the new Workplace Messaging. Ken spoke about Domino 7; timelines, increased scalability, new possibilities with an optional DB2 storage… etc.

I sympathize with the feeling that we have more access to information internally than you do… so what are the top 3 things you would like to see publically with respect to “sense of true commitment by IBM.”?

Alan - IBM

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Subject: The messaging one was more ‘ho hum’ for me …

… but it was good to see the ND7 stuff in there.

Afraid I have no interest in Workplace messaging.

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Subject: RE: Ok, what you are asking for is certainly reasonable…

… so what would equal a “tangible view of expanded opportunities”? And opportunities for what? For creating collaborative solutions using technologies from IBM which involve messaging, instant messaging, awareness, web conferencing, team workspaces, e-learning, document management, expertise location, etc? Opportunities to expand the reach of Domino applications to using things like the new Portlet Builder for Domino or the Lotus Domino Toolkit for WebSphere Studio? <<

I look forward to all these things.

Or… opportunities just from creating Domino applications, nothing more, nothing less?<<

Well, opportunities using rich clients: either Notes or something like it. Browsers are not going to work for most of our current or potential users. We use the entire feature set of the Notes client intensively.

You mentioned getting a great deal of benefit from the Workplace webcast… did you also watch Ken Bisconti’s messaging one? We have been showcasing the Notes 6.5 client, Domino Web Access (iNotes), and the new Workplace Messaging. Ken spoke about Domino 7; timelines, increased scalability, new possibilities with an optional DB2 storage… etc.<<

No, but I will now. Only one of our clients uses Lotus/IBM messaging.

I sympathize with the feeling that we have more access to information internally than you do… so what are the top 3 things you would like to see publically with respect to “sense of true commitment by IBM.”?<<

You see it earlier and in more depth. So you can form a favourable impression of the road ahead while the rest of us are trying to ‘get it’ and are feeling lost. This is inevitable, and nobody’s fault.

Top 32

Lotus Workplace shipping on Web/Notes/‘rich client’/mobile – demonstrates future of Notes/rich clients. This seems to be fairly close.

Domino Express packages offering low pricing for SMEs. This too, is close.

Those are what I can think of. If Workplace is pushed hard, as I suspect it will be, then that will really produce some ‘buzz’. So, you’re pretty well placed in fact. Seeing the Workplace demo was a real inflection point for me.

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Subject: By the way, that link for partners is

on the PartnerWorld site at http://www-100.ibm.com/partnerworld/software/pwswzone.nsf/docs/LMCK-54GL4Q?opendocument(you’ll need your PWSW userid and password to access this site)

The document is entitled IBM Lotus Software: The Value Proposition for IBM Business Partners

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Subject: so you expect us …

the general person, to accept your statements about marketing when your company website does the following:

  • promotes upgrading to R5 as the third headline, when ND6 came out last fall

  • clicking marketing brings up a BLANK page

  • no success stories at all with ND6

I think I will stick with other opinions.

John

(modified to fix some spelling errors)