IBM… you suck!!!
And Thanks!!
Subject: Not a Form
really!! After spending the day on this to have it suddenly bomb for no reason, and all my work is gone, and have my manager give me the looks because this is hot.
And from the posts, IBM isn’t going to bother to fix?!!??!??
Really … you do suck!
Subject: RE: Not a Form
So, you prefer software platforms that don’t require you to use backups? Let me know which one is best.
Subject: RE: Not a Form
Backups? Ha…
Are you suggesting that the fix for a defect in a product that is sold to customers is that the customer should rely on backups in the event the known defect in the product costs the customer money/time/data due to crashes? Nice. Why not forget about fixing anything and let the customer beware.
Imagine Ford selling a car that they know has a defect in the breaking system, and they say… “We have no plans of recalling to fix … just don’t drive”.
How often do you do backups? Every minute? Every hour? Every day/night? I started to work on this form and saved often through the day. There was no backup while I was working on this form, it was out of the schedule. Then, after hours of work, suddenly the form is not a form and the day was wasted. We back up at night. What good would that have done me?? Please!
Backups should be used to protect companies data and custom designs. Not a cheesy excuse to ignore an flaw in a product.
Subject: RE: Not a Form
xie xie, I understand your frustration, but please put it into perspective.
In 9+ years of Notes and Domino development I’ve lost one single form due to that “known defect”. There is no such thing as perfect software on this planet. Shit does happen, and it usually happens when you’re not prepared for it. But that’s not specific to Notes. I lost at least as much (rather more) data due to Windows crashes, than due to Notes crashes. But both numbers are close to negligible in absolute terms.
And please forget about those unavoidable comparisons with car manufacturers. This old “if cars were like software products” stories are pretty childish and inappropriate. Never had your car in the garage and the mechanic was telling you, that they couldn’t confirm the error you told them about?
So, you lost a day’s work and that’s not funny. You want to vent your anger and that’s OK. But after all, it’s not as simple as IBM not being willing to fix a “known defect” just to nag you and me.
Subject: Unfortunately, this is fairly frequent. IBM should fix it.
Forget the car company comparison, but this is a tremendous morale killer, and is the sort of problem that can turn stalwart Notes supporters into opponents. IBM should go all out to figure out what is wrong with this. Of course, no software is perfect. But likewise, no software company is immune to disillusionment, and IBM would be wise not to let it happen. Many problems require workarounds, but flat out deletion of your hard work is pretty hard to accept.
And yes, I’ve only had it happen a couple of times, but I have had many people appeal to me for help since I have some tools which can help in some small ways. Unfortunately, I have only been able to help in a small minority of cases.
Subject: RE: Unfortunately, this is fairly frequent. IBM should fix it.
“IBM should go all out to figure out what is wrong with this.”
I will not argue against that, for sure. But this is definitely not the only issues that bites occasionally, and when I said, that it happened to me only once, you can take that literally. Maybe I was just lucky …
In the end, shouting out, that IBM sucks doesn’t do any good. Rather the contrary, I would assume, and that was the main reason for my initial response.
I tend to think, that having a reasonable, easy to use version control system build into Notes would help with issues like this to some extend (although this might heat up the old RAD discussion again). Unfortunately, I was not able to attend the session on using SubVersion together with Notes at EntwicklerCamp, because at the same time some other guy gave a highly informative and entertaining lecture on Symphony in Notes 8. Just struggling to remember his name …
Subject: *LOL. I’m glad you enjoyed the session (and agree that saying “IBM sucks” is not helpful)
Subject: Not a Form
In order to address your issue better it helps if you detail exactly what it was you were doing around the time of the cause.
This helps to determine a pattern which is generally required to help in solving these issues.
I had a look and could only find one SPR for “Not a Form” in R7 codestream (you didn’t mention what release you are on).
That SPR is VMAA67XKDJ. This is caused by adding the same subform more then once to the same form indirectly. Currently open with development.
Does this sound like what happened? If so you should log a customer report against it.
Subject: RE: Not a Form
“you didn’t mention what release you are on”
Actually, he did, in the way this forum expects you to provide this information: Have a look at the heading.
Just by chance (I assume), the only time I suffered from this problem was on 6.5.5 as well, but looking at what others report, it probably really just was by coincidence.
Subject: Cheers!
Can’t believe I missed that. I had a look at R6 and there are a few different conditions but SPRs are in different states. Can we get more information on what happened prior to the issue?
The majority however appear to be related to subforms as mentioned.