"No one uses Lotus Notes anymore."

I was once a top poster in this forum, always answers and instead of questions. Now I am finally prompted to post again, perhaps for the last time.

I am posting now because I just solved a major business problem for a company, and I did it because of my Notes / Domino expertise in apps development and web administration. I have the skills to solve this problem with other technologies, but the extremely tight time frames dictated the rapid apps development that comes with Lotus. Security was key, too. What irks me is that the executives in this company believe that “No one uses Lotus Notes anymore.”

I once worked for a company where the owner insulted me simply because I used Notes, never mind the profits I once made for him. I also worked for companies that are now undertaking years-long projects to eliminate Notes. When I ask why, they typically say the executives ordered it and that Microsoft will underwrite the cost to kill Notes.

I once did consulting for a company that won an award largely because of the app I built for them. When I read about the award in a newspaper, I was shocked to read that the president took all the credit for the award. He never mentioned me, my consulting firm or Lotus Notes. Sorry I cannot give details, but my consulting company president knows Microsoft products inside and out, and he knew that Microsoft products could not have addressed the needs of this business and their employees.

So it was a good run, Lotus. I was known in multiple US states as the go-to guy for what I did. (I cannot say what I did. It would be too obvious.) I once wrote Lotus code that performed a function that was later added to the Lotus Domino product. (Lotus did not get it from me, it was just obviously important, and Lotus pays attention to what is obviously important.) That client simply paid me chump change, and told me to get lost. “It was just Lotus Notes” to them. They admitted later they had no idea how valuable my code could have been to them.

I cannot analyze exactly what happened. Certainly, the recent economic collapse did not help. Also, it seems that Microsoft is more intent on destroying Notes than IBM is in maintaining it. Of course, Notes is not dead. Indeed, the more I work with other technologies, the more I realize that IBM is committed to improving Notes. But after years of making a living with Notes, I must realize that time is over for me. Too bad I’m too young to retire. It is even worse for the companies that are making investments to kill Notes internally. I’m seeing multiples of them, and they are mostly wasting money, spreading untruths and reducing internal efficiencies.

It was a nice run though. Despite my problems from those inside Lotus and outside, I had some good experiences.

Subject: End of the technology curve

As a programmer and software vendor (we have had a Notes app in the marketplace for overe 15 years) it’s a shame, but I’ve come to the conclusion that Notes really is dead. what we now have are technlogy laggards who are at the far end of the technology curve. It’s a cheap solution that still works, and protects IT directors who are afraid of new technology. what a shame. Xpages puts out some mean applications.

Subject: What is this crap??

Notes sucks as a development platform, application platform, and there are far better platforms for the web. The only thing killing Notes is Notes.

If this were real there be no need for all the mystery. What a bogus post.

Subject: I’m glad you wrote in, Willy Lorenzo

To Willy Lorenzo, I happened to be in the forums a few months ago, and I saw some of your posts. It was so long after you had posted that I did not respond to you then. So thanks for the opportunity today. You are clearly intelligent and an excellent programmer. However when it comes to Notes, you are ignorant. You sometimes give very bad advice. You keep promising to leave this forum. The forum will be better when you are gone.

I have business clients whose briefcases you could not carry. Your opinion carries no weight with me.

Subject: “Your opinion carries no weight with me.”

Obviously, it does.

Subject: Wrong again, Willy.

Do not try to tell me what I am thinking or feeling. Your opinion means nothing to me, as I said before. I posted a reply to you so that others may realize you sometimes give very bad advice. I will not engage you in a “Yes, you do. No, I don’t” discussion. I was wondering before if you are 5 years old emotionally. Now I wonder if you are 2 years old. I thought you might ask for an example of your bad advice. Now I realize how much I overestimated you. I learned long ago to avoid angry, ignorant people. You are “vexations to the spirit.”

Subject: Jeez…someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning

Hey if don’t know nearly as much about Lotus Notes as you think you do, and can’t understand and appreciate the wisdom of my advice, I can’t do anything about that. Read the help.

Subject: OMG

Willy,

you might not remember me, but remember you. I have not read a post from you since @Sum. You are still the man, I dont care what (or who) this mysterious pos(t)er is, you are da man. I remember you, Nathan, JPD, MFJ all that stuff man. Wow, cool. Okay, now I feel suddenly old.

Wherever you end up, do something badass like you did with Notes. I am still hacking at it. Or maybe it’s hacking at me, lol.

Anyway, best of luck …

“King” Richard

Subject: OMG it’s the King!

King Richard! How are you? Remember? How could any of us forget that time! That’s when Notes was fun to work with. @Sum…now I feel old! When did I write that…was it 17 years ago now? Oy.

For those wondering…King Richard was the king because he’d ALWAYS come up with the formula code to do the job! Good hearing from you Richard!

Subject: @Hello

I am great thanks. Yes I can’t believe it has been that long. But I can’t believe that those Led Zeppelin songs I love are 40 years old either.

Nathan thinks I am a techno-laggard. lol. It’s okay. I still have a warm feeling about “ping pong” filter macros, and popups wrapped around fields that write to the ini file. Yes it was fun. Has always been for me. Sorry to hear how much you have not enjoyed it. There must be a pay-off, as they say. You must have been getting something from it all these years (other than cashflow).

What is your next platform? What will you do next?

Subject: Wait… what?

“I still have a warm feeling about “ping pong” filter macros”

Seriously? Richard, those things were the WORST! They would wreak replication cycle havoc and force index updates everywhere! That’s one of the worst workarounds we ever had to endure on the platform, and one of the defining practices that gave Notes the label of “doesn’t scale.”

Subject: Tubesocks and duct tape

Come on man, its nostalgic. You can’t be all bits and bytes inside that great mind of yours. You have to have fond memories of the early days. I really enjoyed trying to solve the puzzles. It is why I left sales to invent stuff using computers. Notes was a very fertile bed for invention.

It was creative problem solving, like the way they made Apollo 13 oxygen filter or whatever from tube socks and duct tape (or whatever they used). We made what we could with what we had.

Sometimes limitations lead us to push harder for more creative solutions. That is my point about technology changing just because it is keeping beat with the clock. I can do Ajax with R4. That was not thought possible back then. But it works.

Yeah, I loved using the server INI file for sequential numbers. LOL.

What’s that I hear… szzzhh… clk… grrrszz… clk… kaaaaaahhhhh… zzzzz… it’s the partner forum…it’s replicating! Grab a cup of coffee…

Subject: Nathan, don’t you miss these days?

Subject: flip flops and ini…that’s real old school Notes!

Well other than cash, for me the payoff was always in making something useful to the users…the tool used is inconsequential. Notes is what I know so that’s what I use.

I’m actually going to try to get out of computers entirely, so I won’t be working with any system. At least that’s the plan…time will tell how well it works out!

Subject: then why are you here in this forum, Willy?

Subject: I don’t understand the question

You don’t have to like a system to work with it. Notes sucks…it’s simply a reality that I’ve accepted as part of my job for many years.

But actually, that’s coming to an end in a couple of weeks, and then I won’t be here anymore.

Subject: Actually it’s only heinous for development…

  • I have to disagree that it’s not a good application platform. I still have yet to see any product that does all Notes/Domino can do, as flexibly as Notes/Domino can do it. Individual applications … no contest. A dedicated email system will always trump Domino, or a dedicated system. But Domino isn’t a dedicated system, it’s an open-ended system, supporting a bewildering array of technologies, and I don’t know of any general-purpose distributed application systems that can do what it does.

I’ve always had a love/hate relationship with Domino … I love what I can do with it and I hate hammering it into shape. Or perhaps I should say I hate the “hammer” (grin)…

Subject: I disagree…

I think it’s a horrible application platform.

First, there’s the Notes client itself. Lotus had envisioned Notes as an end-user tool. The end-user would create their own databases and maintain them. Ridiculous, yes, but that explains a lot of features of the Notes client. Like a web browser, the client belongs to the user…not the developer. As a developer you have next to no control over menu options that are available at any given time. While that certainly falls under “horrible development platform” it’s also bad for the user because they have a myriad of functions without any idea of what they do. So when developing applications you have to always contend with what the user might do that you can’t control, such as opening up the preview “pain”.

As a development platform, I think IBM stopped developing the UI after version 5, with just minor additions after that. Blatant MIAs…field formatting (a user can only enter numbers, for example, and nothing else,) and code execution on field change as a user is typing. Those two options would have easily save millions of lines of code. Also, a date field that can only be populated through the picker. These are such simple functions, have been available in other development systems for DECADES, and yet, Notes doesn’t provide them. Again, falls under “horrible development platform” but that translates to a horrible user experience. Users HATE HATE HATE to spend time entering data (be it a minute or 1/2 second) just to be told that they entered the wrong data. A good interface prevents the bad data from being entered, and will also flash the field hint or do something to try to help the user if the user does try to enter bad data. That’s an interface that works WITH the user…not against him.

At the moment I develop and manage a complex application where everything is done by LotusScript. There are no bugs in the code, but that doesn’t prevent processes from failing. I get errors such as database (DATABASE!!) not found, fulltext index in use, oh and my favorite, an “Object variable not set” error on Source.Document.ParentDatabase in Querymodechange. Seems to happen once every 100 thousand edits or so. The environment itself has grown so complex with so many interdependencies that it’s difficult to create complex processes that run with 100% reliability WHEN THE SERVER IS UNDER A HEAVY LOAD (that’s an important distinction.)

If you claim industrial strength, that’s what has to be provided. I’ve got workers in the field calling in to check-in and start their clocks…I can’t have these agents throwing DB not found errors at those moments!

So I humbly submit that in my opinion the application platform is indeed horrible.

Subject: I didn’t say it was perfect! (grin)…

  • Anyone who’s used Notes/Domino has run across it’s foibles, and I have cursed them many a time, I assure you. It’s infuriating when code runs flawlessly for six months, then one day it simply fails, and no one and nothing can make it work while The Powers That Be are screaming about that high-visibility application being off-line. The only recourse is to “code around it” and hope that lasts longer. In my experience it normally does. (knocks on head)

  • But everything uses tons of automagic these daze, and everything has its issues, I imagine. I do have to imagine because I’ve done nothing but Domino (in various languages) for a little over twelve years, so I don’t know what or how someone would do what Domino does. I did take a class on EJB a few years back and I can say with absolute and total certainty that EJB was a hideous bloody nightmare to develop for compared to Domino. The sheer amount of time spent coding to do the absolute most trivial things, like put a field on the web and commit the data, where truly staggering. Perhaps it’s different now, as I said I haven’t used it, but back then I’d run screaming to Lotus and beg to be allowed to subject myself to Designer.

  • So I agree with you fully that it’s got issues, and some of them can be right annoying. But I do not agree that “it’s a horrible application platform”.

That’s fine, though. I can amicably disagree just as easily as rant about DDE (lopsided grin)…

Subject: “I think IBM stopped developing the UI after version 5”

Ummm… you’d need to install a version later than 5 to be able make that claim. Try going here IBM Products and clicking on “Download this product.” Since Designer also installs a standalone Notes client, you’ll be able to evaluate the Notes UI. Just make sure you connect to a Domino server. Let me know if you need one – I’ll be happy to generate a BleedYellow id for you.