Hi, my name is Carl Duranleau and I’m a Notes developer. Few days ago, I’ve installed the new 8.5 clients. Here’s a mini bug list for my first use of the new 8.5 clients. I thought I got enough bugs to share them with you.
Low/No impact error popups when changing location. Often saying an error about a tootip.
Unable to keep Sametime panel displayed in Client when working in Designer. This problem has been produced with a dual monitor configuration with the Client and the Designer in their own monitor.
Often loosing the text cursor in Lotus Script code. To get the cursor back, you have to select a different tab and the get back to your tab to refresh the page.
CTRL+Z still having problem with the location of the recovered lines.
Agent title not changing in the tab when modifying it in the agent and saving. The tab title seems to be updated only at the agent opening.
Radio buttons are too large in the ‘Selection conditions’ section in the ‘Create View’ popup. It goes over the selection formula edit box.
When selecting documents, pressing delete will display the ‘X’ icon near the documents. But after that, pressing F9 will do nothing. It’s like the F9 key isn’t working. Event when exiting the database, there’s no question about the documents tagged to be deleted. To delete the document, you have to select ‘Refresh’ from the ‘View’ menu. EDIT: I got this problem only one time and it may be caused by another mixed pointer issue.
When opening the Notes Client in one screen and the Designer in the other, Notes may mix the windows pointer. For example, you open a mail il your mailbox in the client and open an agent in the designer. After that, you select something in your designer and you double-right-click in the client, the opened agen in the designer will close instead of your mail.
Many of these bugs are caused by a bad window pointers management. R7 and R8 were having the same problem when double-clicking on the mail icon from the Windows Taskbar, and rapidly selecting the designer or the admin client. When doing this, the mail was opening in the selected client. So it was possible to view your mail in the admin or the designer client.
Even if there’s a lot a minor bugs in the new 8.5 clients, it seems to be a very good first version. My only complaint would be that the horrible Java, LotusScript and Formula editors still there, with the weird behavior of the CTRL+Z, the impossibility to save with errors and the lack of an object oriented interface for LotusScript and Java.
Sorry for my bad english. I’m doing my best as french canadian!
I just rolled back to 8.0.2. I’ve been working with Notes since 1993 and haven’t been this frustrated or crashed this much since the mid-90s. Argh - what a terrible experience. This is supposed to be progress? How are people able to use this thing?
The real problem is that there is always new features in Notes Clients, but we don’t really want new features even if they are very cool, we just want the current version to work correctly! The notepad is a better editor than the LotusScript and Formula editor. I really don’t understand why Lotus always try to recreate the wheel when implementing interfaces. Why developing a new home-made editor? Why developing a home-made window handling? It’s like trying to put the spark plugs into the pistons to develop a new internal combustion engine! I’m using Notes since release 4.5 and the big problem has never been on the user side since Notes can run great applications. The problem has always been on the designer side since the environment is so full of bugs, that many developers simply stop using it.
Yes, we got some improvements with the new releases. But keep in mind that having a sorting method and loops in formula aren’t great new features in a data manager like Notes, they’re resolved problems!
TODO List for IBM:
LotusScript Debugger that always starts
LotusScript/Java/Formula editor that ‘really’ supports undo, colored code, object navigator, real auto-member/properties suggestions (even on custom classes) and that don’t stop you from saving when the code isn’t completed!!
A real window pointers management to prevent useless refreshes when clicking on anything
These are not new features, they’re only bugs from R4 and R5. You can do it IBM! Just focus on the engine and not on new gadgets. Gadgets are really great only when developers already enjoy working with the product.
Subject: There was beta work shown on first class editors for Java and Lotusscript at Lotusphere
Class editor for LotuScript! Finally!
You’re right, the move to Eclipse is great. The only problems are the bugs coming from the development team coding-style; Useless refreshes, bad pointer management, bad multi-monitor handling, etc. I hope 8.5.1 will solve many of these problems.
But they have corrected the most annoying bug in R5+ releases. Now, in R8.5, the designer client no longer tries to open each previous database when opening!! Wow! Now I can work with my applications from different client’s VPNs and let them bookmarked in the designer!
As a Notes Developer for more than 10 years, if I say that something is a bug, you can be sure that it must be very annoying.
If you’re talking about the designer opening the last opened applications at start, yes it’s the biggest problem of the R5+ releases. I’m working with many applications running on many VPN connections since I also support clients with their development. When I use a different VPN connection and open the designer, I always have to wait for the designer to try to open the last opened applications. Since it cannot open this applications, It finally opens after a timeout. If I use the CTRL+Break to go faster, I have a message to inform me that some application wasn’t opened and ask me if I want to delete this link. I don’t want to, but if I answer ‘yes’, the designer removes the wrong application by removing the one I’m currently opening! Maybe the last part of the problem is more recent (I wasn’t using the ‘yes’ answer before), but the whole problem comes from the R5 release.
If you’re talking about the coding-style of lotus developer team, just look at the 8.5.1 release and you’ll have your answer. With Notes, engines are always great, but the interfaces are most of the time ‘beta style’. Just think of the corrupted tables and disappearing hide-whens problems in R5, the corrupted text in @Formula and LotusScript editors in R5/R6, the navigator’s graphic bugs in designer R7, etc. I don’t remember all the problems I got in 10 years, but I got enough of them to see the Notes Designer as the worst piece of software I’ve ever seen. I just hope that the next releases will have a better stability and usability instead of more features.
I just got a presentation of the new XPage feature in 8.5.1 and, wow, what a great evolution! Unfortunately, the LotusScript/Formula/Java editors improvements are still in the future release features list.
Now, in R8.5, the designer client no longer tries to open each previous database when opening!!
I am making my money in Designer since Beta Versions of R3 - quite some time too. I am not questioning what you feel that is most important for you - I just never did run into this.
There is a tendency these days to have a VMWare with a different Designer for every customer - I am still trying to decide to go there, or not (I have already 5 or so Designers installed on my machine)
(by the time, the most anoying thing for me is the fact that saving a view takes forever, if it is open in the Notes client).
Still, I would like to correct one thing, if I may:
8.5.1 is not available for the public, yet. 8.5.0 has XPages and I think the Editor improvements (LotusScript and Java, not sure on Javascript, and I would gess nothing for @Formula) have been shown at Lotusphere.
You’re right. I was talking about the release 8.5 and not 8.5.1! Sorry for that.
I’ve seen the new features of the new editors in the next releases at my XPage presentation. They look great and they seem to have everything we were waiting for since R5. Good job! In my mind, they should have been implemented in R5 or R6, but, maybe it wasn’t important enough.
I’m not a fan of IBM’s heavy and slow software, but I prefer a slow tractor that’s working than an old chevy that’s burning oil!
