Do your users like Notes?

Hi,

Do your users (other than Notes developers) really like working with Notes? Because some(actually more) people in my organization are getting frustrated with Notes client especially the Eclipse client which takes a lot of time for start-up itself.

They say that after clicking the Notes icon, they can actually start a browser and check their personal mails(Gmail etc) before the Notes client has started up or even prompting for password. One of the sad things is that today, a colleague of mine came to me and asked how do i configure Outlook Express to access mail from the domino server.

Personally I’m a big fan of Lotus Notes and i know users here are not utilizing the full functionality of Notes client. Because most of the people here use Notes only for mail, they want it to startup and work in a lightning speed.

So i would like to hear some tips & tricks from you, Notes Gurus, how to make Notes client much faster? And what are all the Notes applications you are running which you think Notes is the best platform for those apps? Is anybody is running any application on local(Notes client)?

Hope i get some responses. :slight_smile:

Subject: Do my users like Notes…hmmm…

Well, I’ll refrain from providing a link to the LotusNotesSucks website and just say that no, In 18 years I don’t think I’ve ever met a user that liked Notes. Most are indifferent, some dislike, and a few speak of Notes with the kind of rhetoric that would get one accused of a hate crime.

It all has to do with that interface. It was borne from an attempt to write code that was cross platform, even after it became abundantly clear that Windows is the only OS that really matters on the desktop. The cross-platform approach did far more harm than good. Lotus would have been much better off producing an application that looked and felt like a Windows app. But they didn’t. Then IBM came along and…well…

Hopefully in a month or two I’ll be out of Notes/Domino programming forever, so it won’t be my problem anymore. Woohoo!

Subject: *what version of Notes are they using and are they using applications besides mail?

Subject: R8.5

Most of our users are using Notes 8.5 and they are using it only for mail.

Subject: Versions 2 through 6.5.x. All clients had large custom applications.

Subject: what I’ve found, since R3

  1. server and client on latest helps w/features2. well written and truly collaborative apps are real winners

  2. lack of training causes user frustration and they won’t use the mail and applications to their potential. we find the ones we train they tend to really like notes.

  3. extending apps which need exposure to the web are raising eyebrows. true web 2.0 apps in Notes. the advantages are phenomenal.

An executive at a firm e-mailed to me “I love the Notes 8.0.1 client.”.

Moving them to 8.5.1 next week.

Subject: Well here’s what I’ve found

People don’t care about technology…they only care about getting their work done.

If the technology helps get their work done, it’s an asset.

If the technology doesn’t help get their work done, it’s a hindrance.

Users don’t have the time, nor do they want, to learn Notes. To demonstrate by example, users want to click on the icon on the desktop and be in their app. They don’t want to open an app, select “open application”, find a server, find the db, and then open the app, just to open their apps. Obviously, that’s an extreme example, but the point is valid. The menus are filled with options that users don’t know exist and likely couldn’t use properly if they did. IBM knows this. When was the last time the Import/Export functions were updated? I’d be surprised if it was less than 10 years ago.

Users don’t know and don’t care what a replication/save conflict is, they don’t understand why their updates are gone, and they don’t want to be bothered by having to resolve updates from two different documents. They’re response is that they have work to do and the system should take care of these things.

And you know what? They’re absolutely right. They don’t get paid to deal with Notes’ screw-up’s. They get paid to work. And when Notes “loses” their work, they have to waste their time getting it fixed.

At my current location I have an app that accesses data from several other databases. I also have an error tracking system in all my LotusScript. In one particular action, the very first step is to get a handle to a database and then check to see if the db is Nothing. Out of a thousand uses per week I’ll get a handful of failures. Now…I know the db is there…it’s working for everyone else. I can open the production app, click the action, and it always works for me. But for some reason, every so often it fails. Along with several other functions that just simply shouldn’t fail…but yet they do.

The user gets a nice error message saying a problem occurred and please try again and contact support if the problem persists. It usually works the second time. But it annoys them. And it annoys me that Notes can’t be depended on to operate reliably.

The users who drive design are annoyed the most. “Why can’t the view be sorted by Totals? I’d like to see which customer made the most purchases.” “Because Notes can’t do that.” “If it’s a number field, why does it even let me put letters in there?” “Because Notes can’t do that.” “Why can’t the data on the form refresh itself when the other database is updated?” “Because Notes can’t do that.” “Why can’t I copy this data to the clipboard in edit mode when I can do it in read mode?” “Because Notes can’t do that.” I could go on at length on the limitations of Notes that makes the interface a hindrance for users.

If one says that the solution to these problems is 8.5.1 and XPages…to me that the same as saying the solution is to rewrite the app in a completely different system. And if we ever go that route, it won’t be Notes.

Now, if you ask the users if they like our primary app, they say yes they do. But the reasons given are based on the major functions that the system performs that makes their job easier. One small example…for some reason we always get addresses for stores with no zip code. So there’s a “ZIP” action. Put in the address, click, and you get your zip. Users like functions like that because it makes their lives easier. But just because they like the functions, doesn’t mean they like the road they travel to use those functions.

My sister uses Notes 8 and she hates it.

Subject: Notes/Domino has been rock solid for us and our clients.

We have several applications which have been used for years with virtually zero support needed. Sometimes 8-12 months go by before they contact us for an enhancement or question. Well designed and developed solutions, along with proper training, should result in rare replication/save conflicts.

Where Notes excels we put that up front and center. We develop for what it’s good at. For reporting, we use live Excel reporting and again, they love it.

Your want a simple interface without training? Here’s a 100% Notes/Domino application’s web interface:

http://www.rainbowsync.com/live

Users have been using that 18 months with zero support calls. We ask them to at least reboot the Windows server once a month but it’s been over a year. They don’t care about technology. The SOB Domino server keeps running. We automated adding web users via an Action button. Single click and we automate the creation of groups and person docs in the Domino Directory or DA. No technology and no calls to their Domino admin.

Now wait a minute…it’s one app that allow them to import thousands of folders and files with one click, replicate it automatically to one ore more domino servers for Notes and Web access, all securely, encrypted and compressed. Oh and full text search for attachments is built in so they can search the web and locally on their laptop…anywhere anytime. Wait…the database must be encrypted locally in case it’s stolen…yeah…did that too and built in free.

They told us "we had some crappy Notes applications and the server crashed all the time. We hated Notes so we didn’t want anymore Notes applications. " They are converts. We built another solution in two months which was taking another group 18 months with other, non-integrated technologies. We’re about to embark on two major mission critical applications for them. We upgraded them from 6 to 7 and now 8. The IT group is really wowed by DAOS.

Sure, I can write plenty on what I’d like different about Notes but the same is true with every platform. We aren’t using xPages and when we feel it’s ready for us we will. That doesn’t stop us from using the incredible Notes/Domino core. ND gives us an integrated environment which has no rivals and the collaboration market is wide open.

Most firms are still creating personal folders to mail, storing files on fieshares and meeting 90% of the day to find out the status of work. They are still using databases to store pure data and using mail to communicate. ND can do both and boost productivity by an order of magnitude.

Success isn’t only a well developed solution. There are a number of elements which we focus on.

http://www.sga.com/Site.nsf/ID/success_agreement

We’ve lost a number of clients and they decided to stay on 6. the truth is they wanted to get off the platform and we’re happy they did. they put zero dollars into the health and well being of the product. They usually run old servers until they die. Guess what. When they switched to Exchange they bought 64 bit servers, purchased much faster WANS and Internet connections and got all users new laptops. They really wanted to ensure that outlook/exchange excelled so they went overboard.

Subject: I love Notes…

…and couldn’t do what I do without it. Clients using apps I’ve written for them in Notes love their apps (I don’t know if they “love Notes” but they certainly do like their apps.) Managers love how inexpensive it is for me to manage their ND infrastructure.

Subject: Notes can do that

“Why can’t the data on the form refresh itself when the other database is updated?” “Because Notes can’t do that.”

Actually, if you put an agent in the database in which the document is updated, that agent can trigger the document refresh in the other database. Or you can write code that runs when they open the document to check for updates and refresh in front of the user. I would recommend the former, but it could be done either way.

Or, if you’re only displaying data, rather than saving it in fields on the current document, you don’t have to re-save the current document, it’s already “updated” when you open it.

Or if the data is in an embedded view…

Just because you haven’t thought of a way to do it doesn’t mean Notes can’t do it. I used to tell people that “Notes can’t do that”, but I kept finding that if I worked on it long enough and was flexible in my thinking, I could do it in Notes.

Subject: My users totally groove on Notes…

  • I incessantly bash Designer/DDE/whatever it is this incarnation, but that’s me. That’s not my users.

  • My users, ie, the ones who employ the applications I write, could hardly be more tickled pink with Notes and Domino. My experience (a measly 12 years of it, with Lotus) is that if I do my job right, my users are always happy as clams, and they’re amazed at how quickly and easily I can make changes. Part of that is my application design, but I couldn’t design a decent application without a decent infrastructure.

  • I’m happy at how secure it is, how there are multiple ways to solve any particular problem, how insanely flexible it is, and how (until R8.5 at least) literally trivial it is to move a Domino server or Notes client from one machine to another.

  • Having said all that, I am a bit worried about R8.5. My experience with that is it runs legacy apps just fine as you please, but the instant you try to change legacy code, everything gets bollixed. That is not the Domino I’ve come to know and respect.

  • Then again, that’s probably DDE, not Domino at all. See, Domino runs the legacy apps without the slightest problem. It’s DDE building them that hoses it all. I seriously wish Lotus would just throw in the towel on IDEs, which they can’t seem to build, and concentrate on Domino, which they do with flying colors. Let a third party make an IDE for them.

  • So I still maintain that Notes and Domino are brilliant, and my users like it…

Subject: Sounds good…

It sounds good that there are people who like Notes along with more people who don’t like it. I LOVE my Notes too. But i’m worried that how do i make other users to know about Notes.

So i’m planning to develop an application which would be used on their local Notes client itself and it should contain at-least some of the major functionality of Notes which they are not aware of. But i’ve no idea till now about this app.

Would like to get some suggestions…

Subject: eProductivity

eProductivity is a customized mail template utilizing Getting Things Done methodologies. They’ve actually had people convert to single-seat Notes just for that app. Is that the kind of thing you’re talking about?

Subject: Yup, kind of eProductivity

Hi Bill,I’ve not used eProductivity. But i’d like to have a separate standalone application from that of Mail.

I’m still thinking of it.

Subject: ignore Willy - he’s been bitching for years

Notes is a terrific environment to work in, both for users and programmers. It is stable, new releases have great backward compatibility, it can do pretty much everything an organization needs inside one environment, rather that having multiple applications each with their own look-and-feel that users have to learn.

And for developers, it’s a dream. I compete in my company with Outlook developers, where we have to provide identical functionality for Notes and Outlook. I am on my own, and there is 4 of them. I always introduce new features first, and they lag, sometimes by years. And we cen distribute new Notes version overnight with a single step, while Outlook requires physical distribution and installation.

There’s just no comparison - in every way, Notes wins hands down!

Subject: How dare you!

How dare you tell people to ignore someone, when your own performance in the forum is so substandard, like when you said Notes can’t search for numbers, or when you give a formula answer when a person asked for LotusScript. How would you like if I responded to your incorrect posts with “Ignore Watka, he doesn’t know Notes anywhere near as well as he thinks he does.”

Let’s find out. I suggest you carefully validate the correctness of any answers you intend to give from now on.

Subject: Read your own words

“Hopefully in a month or two I’ll be out of Notes/Domino programming forever”

We are all dreading that day. Does it means you’ll be absent from this forum as well? Sob! Sob!

Subject: Yes, that means I’ll likely not be in the forum anymore

So you only have to wait two months before you can give “advice” again.

Subject: Love/hate/indifferent

To be honest, how many ‘normal’ users would ever claim to love a piece of software sitting on their PC?

As Willy has pointed out (from a different point of view may be), users just want something to work, and if it does they’re happy enough, but they don’t really care about the technology.

So, yes I get some of our users telling me they hate Notes. I also hear how much they hate Word and Excel and other software. I expect every Outlook shop also has their share of users that hate Outlook.

The number of users in my organisation that hate/dislike Notes has definitely decreased since upgrading to 8 and 8.5. Anything 7 and before is just plain ugly and out of date these days, so I think you should ignore comments to do with the look and feel of Notes from people on these releases (and upgrade if you haven’t already).

In terms of speed, we’ve now got everyone on 2GB RAM, have ensured that the virus scanner is not causing issues with the client (it was installing an add-in that was causing crashes), and speed is just fine. 8.5.1 is also noticeably snappier than 8.0.2.

I’m not going to go in to the problems or benefits of Domino as a development platform - I love it and we have apps internally that people like and others that they don’t, but can’t comment on other people’s apps and a lot of the issues we have with our apps are more to do with bad ui design than anything else.